Curse

hunter · Apr 14, 2006, 06:12 PM // 18:12

And by PVE i don't mean those campaign missions which can be beaten by henchies. I mean missions which are somewhat difficult.

Lets have a look at some of the places which are worth going to PVE wise.

UW: You can make tons of money and can be soloed. E/mo and Me/MO can also solo it but are much less effective than an invici Monk. Me/N? Sorry, i would rather take a N/Me for more efficiency.

FoW: Same as above, parts of it can be soloed and lots of money made in the process. Solo FoW as E or ME primary? Nop, not worth it. Roll a 55 MO instead

Tombs: Why in gods name bring any of these 2 classes when a B/P group can complete it in a much shorter and easier time. Warriors also have a damn hard time finding a group here as well. Why bring a warrior when necro minions are much better tanks, why bring an ele for "DPS" when rangers plow through and don't suffer from the AoE nerf. Half the damn ele skills aren't nearly as effective as they used to be. ALthough i do agree that having 10 mobs sit into a firestorm + meteor shower is kinda stupid, their new AI however makes Eles pointless. Mesmers.... eh...what are hey gonna do? Shut down those dryders?

SF: Again, same problem as above but to a lesser extent. Eles and Mes are the step child.

I seriously hope that Factions will have some more balanced PVE maps. I realise that Mesmer is a very situational class but damn... don't make that completely pointless in PVE.

PS: Eles and Mes kinda suck for solo farming as well, so all us who rolled an ele and mes have to get a ranger or necro going for some PVE action

fgarvin · Apr 14, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

That was, quite possibly, the most uninformed post I've ever read.

Dr Strangelove · Apr 14, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Elementalists and mesmers don't suck for solo farming, you just suck at solo farming with them. Both can be effective 55 builds. Elementalists can titan farm, which you can't do. Mesmers are exceedingly helpful in a FoW group. In fact, they're exceedingly useful everywhere. Elementalists are a bit gimped atm from the AoE nerf, but again, just because you cannot use an ele correctly does not mean that everyone else can't.

hunter · Apr 14, 2006, 06:22 PM // 18:22

I wonder why i only see R/MO and N/MO in tombs?

hunter · Apr 14, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Elementalists and mesmers don't suck for solo farming, you just suck at solo farming with them. Both can be effective 55 builds. Elementalists can titan farm, which you can't do. Mesmers are exceedingly helpful in a FoW group. In fact, they're exceedingly useful everywhere. Elementalists are a bit gimped atm from the AoE nerf, but again, just because you cannot use an ele correctly does not mean that everyone else can't.

55 build takes 99.9 advantage of monk skills. Don't throw that at me.

Eles can solo farm. Other classes do it better. Solo farming trolls != PVE

Also UW farming > Titan farming

fgarvin · Apr 14, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

PUG's is the reason...any good Guild with social members goes in there with a balanced group for fun. Those B/P groups are only there to farm, and as anyone who actually plays the game knows, farming isn't everything.

hunter · Apr 14, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

I can do tombs with a "balanced group". I however would rather to finish it in ~1h rather then 3.

Str0b0 · Apr 14, 2006, 06:32 PM // 18:32

This topic was in that Nerf the 55 monk thread too. Like I said there I've got a solo E/Me that I use to farm all kinds of things. He almost never takes a significant hit because of kinetic armor and magnetic aura. Then I just spread Degen and use echo'd knockdown. It ususally take only a couple of knockdown cycles to kill ettins a few more for trolls. I still have yet to figure out a good solo mesmer farming build. You've made a very short list of "places that are worth going to" You totally left out Ice Imps for IDS and you left out ettins. I can make more gold in ettin runs than I could spending the equivalent time in any of the places you mentioned in your post, particularly UW and FOW given the recent crash of the ecto and shard market.

fgarvin · Apr 14, 2006, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunter

I can do tombs with a "balanced group". I however would rather to finish it in ~1h rather then 3.

Like I said, farming isn't everything. Getting a green in Tombs is not my goal, getting a ecto in Tombs is not my goal...having fun is my goal. I could give a rat's ass as to whether I get a green drop or not, as long as I had fun, I really don't care about the drops. With that said, good drops are nice, and I love everyone I get, but they are not my goal.

Dr Strangelove · Apr 14, 2006, 06:42 PM // 18:42

I'm going to repeat myself. Just because you limit yourself to only farming tobs with only barrage pet groups does not mean 1 million other players are incapable of playing their own characters. PVE is more than farming, and farming is more than just the very short list you mentioned. I consider my ele to be a much more enjoyable farmer and is capable of farming any area my 55 monk can, and then some. My mesmer makes groups fly through FoW, making more money than a solo farmer would, but for an entire group. There are unbelievably powerful elementalist skills that you are overlooking, obsidian flesh, kinetic armor and mist form to name a few. So please, remember that just because you fail miserably playing anything but the most common cookie cutter builds does not everyone else is just another idiot bashing away at protective spirit.

ExDeity · Apr 14, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by fgarvin

Like I said, farming isn't everything. Getting a green in Tombs is not my goal, getting a ecto in Tombs is not my goal...having fun is my goal. I could give a rat's ass as to whether I get a green drop or not, as long as I had fun, I really don't care about the drops. With that said, good drops are nice, and I love everyone I get, but they are not my goal.

While I disagree with the OP of this thread, I disagree with you in this post in that you are turning the debate into something it isn't. I don't recall anyone questioning your motives to play this game, and yet you throw in the face of the OP that you are playing the game to have fun. It is redundant to say this, and widely assumed that all others are doing the same.

However, there are different degrees of "having fun". To some gamers, myself included, a game becomes easier for me to enjoy if it is balanced accordingly to the goals the game set out to accomplish from its inaugural appearance, all the way to its demise. Having Eles and Mesmers become almost obsolete at higher stages of PvE play would DEFINITELY be a big problem to a gamer trying to have fun with a balanced game. Although I disagree that there is a shortage of either class, having been playing a PvE Mesmer for quite some time now, and seeing many of the same (eles as well), I find that your argument is steering off towards a path not intended by the OP.

We know you want to have fun. But even if having fun is your goal, it doesn't mean that others can't have fun by expecting a balanced game from the devs.

JiggyFly · Apr 14, 2006, 07:06 PM // 19:06

I've seen many invinci Elementalistss team up with SS Necros in UW. I've also seen my fair share of Elementalists and Mesmers in balanced Fissure groups.

It's a bit odd to say that Elementalists and Mesmers are useless for PvE, when in fact in most situations like UW and FOW they are in fact more sought after than say a Ranger or a Warrior.

Quote:

PS: Eles and Mes kinda suck for solo farming as well, so all us who rolled an ele and mes have to get a ranger or necro going for some PVE action

This just isn't true, there are many great solo Elementalist or Mesmer builds out there. At leats builds that can solo UW anyways. Necromancer or Ranger, actually have less going for them, because solo trapping is a bit tricky, and an Invinci Mesmer can go into UW alone, while an SS Necromancer needs a partner to tank.

And after reading your post, it looks like you are one of the people who's still pissed about about the AOE nerf, because flameburst,fireball, meteor shower, immolate, etc.. are still quite useful. In fact, most every group that goes into FOW has Elementalists or Mesmers. Most UW solo underworld groups only have Monks and Necromancers, and sometimes an Elementalist tanking. And B/P groups only use Rangers, Necromancers, and Monks.

So really it's not any one job that's better, it's just so happens with the current Metagames certain builds are popular for certain places that utilize certain jobs, but in no way is that they only type of party that can be successful int hose places.

Quote:

55 build takes 99.9 advantage of monk skills. Don't throw that at me.

Eles can solo farm. Other classes do it better. Solo farming trolls != PVE

Farming isn't PvE, that being said there are still plenty of farming builds out there for every class.

Every solo build is going to utilize Monk spells, because the Monk is a HEALING class. R/Mo imp farming, W/Mo Troll farming, E/Mo etting farming. So saying "I want a solo build that uses the skills I want to use" just isn't going to happen. I mean I hate Heal Area but I still use it for Imp farming.

Overall, there are tons of farming builds out there. And I can say from personal experience some of the best farming I've found doesn't involve Trolls, nor does it involve a Monk,Ranger,or Necromancer primary.

Str0b0 · Apr 14, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiggyFly

Every solo build is going to utilize Monk spells, because the Monk is a HEALING class. R/Mo imp farming, W/Mo Troll farming, E/Mo etting farming. So saying "I want a solo build that uses the skills I want to use" just isn't going to happen. I mean I hate Heal Area but I still use it for Imp farming.

I disagree with you there.I run a solo farming build that is E/Me. I don't rely on self heals but instead on damage mitigation so that I kill them before they kill me. Then I just chill and regen and take the next group. Careful aggro managment will beat out the need for the monk self heals every time. Other than that, spot on.

Huntmaster · Apr 14, 2006, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Welcome, my friend, to the life of a pre-SF patch ranger.

LifeInfusion · Apr 14, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

I'm a warden ele. When I say that to people, 50% don't know what a warden is.

That's because they have never seen a Stone summit warden in SF use wards, the irony...

Theos · Apr 14, 2006, 07:49 PM // 19:49

You sir, are a moron. Please refer to the Mesmer and Elementalists discussion areas for many builds. Solo or non. Gotta love ignorace.

Stabber · Apr 14, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

I'm a warden ele. When I say that to people, 50% don't know what a warden is.

To be fair to them, warden is perhaps not the most accurate word to describe what you mean:

The chief administrator official of a prison.

An official charged with the enforcement of certain laws and regulations

The chief executive of a borough in certain states

A churchwarden

You might have better luck with "warder"...

Magnus_1 · Apr 14, 2006, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiggyFly

Every solo build is going to utilize Monk spells, because the Monk is a HEALING class. R/Mo imp farming, W/Mo Troll farming, E/Mo etting farming. So saying "I want a solo build that uses the skills I want to use" just isn't going to happen. I mean I hate Heal Area but I still use it for Imp farming.

W/Me for imp farming. Monk spells are only useful if you are taking damage. With high enough armor, healing becomes obsolete since you are taking 0 damage.

Cymboric Treewalker · Apr 14, 2006, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by fgarvin

That was, quite possibly, the most uninformed post I've ever read.

Yes... it seems since us Mesmers don't share our builds and there is no FotM build for Mesmers that he is lost.

I like it that way.

Cymboric Treewalker · Apr 14, 2006, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunter

I can do tombs with a "balanced group". I however would rather to finish it in ~1h rather then 3.

As a Mesmer I went with a group... exploited the enemy and finished in 1 hour and 30 minutes... everyone was shocked... it was a balanced group too.

try harder next time.